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thanks!
I need to learn about ebay... for example, there's Sharp 902 Ferrari for 230 pounds... Is it like to go cheaply? Or do sellers put a reserve price...?
[jonesy789, This is disguised as a bump to keep your 902 thread in vision! hahahhaa!]
Ofiaich
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Posted: 2005-06-20 12:35:56
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Hi Ofiaich and others,
I'm keen on the Ferrari 902 as well and Vodafone doesn't seem to let me have one, because I closed a 3G deal with a Nokia 6630 two months ago and only discovered this limited edition 902 a few weeks after that; Vodafone doesn't sell their branded phones as separate items, these only come with subscriptions and having a second subscription in my name in such short time obviously seemed to be risky to them. I offered to pay the whole subscription and the phone up front and are awaiting a written reaction on that proposal. If negative, I may not be bothered to go any further with Vodafone 3G at all or (if I can't contain myself) might just buy this special 902 on eBay. So I may meet you there!
I can comment on eBay, since I've been a member since 2002 and I've bought some 130 items in these last 3 years. You will find me as "g3dm" and I mostly buy electric power tools from eBay Germany, since the items on offer and the honesty of the members over there are of rather high standard, with reasonable prices and good value.
eBay is very much about trust and instinct and weighing risk. You must also trust yourself to be disciplined and cool. Greed and the "wannahave" feeling during a bid are surefire ways to end up with paying over the odds or being stuck up with deals you regret. As for member trust: personally I value a member's rating before I consider to do any business with them. A member who is around for some years and has received 99 to 100 % positive ratings from trade partners, can be trusted to be reasonable should things go wrong. I saw suspiciously many Ferrari 902's on offer from new members with only a few ratings on their account. I wouldn't do business with them. Electric power tools (my particular speciality) are in comparison relatively low-risk items; they can be repaired with plenty parts for sale; furthermore they are not collectibles like these phones. Therefore if anyone doublecrosses me with a faulty or substandard tool, I can repair it myself or easily get the parts and the financial damage is not so big, but with phones there is a greater risk, since one always is dependant on makers themselves or a limited choice of repair shops or providers to obtain the special software, parts or unlocking features.
As for eBay experiences: although I always choose my deals with care, it must be said that from German members I never made any purchases that I regretted. In deals with my own countrymen, I'm afraid that would alas be another matter; there is a certain percentage of freespirited crafty quick-buck-cowboys over here in Holland, not giving a damn when it comes to after-sales. I also noticed a few warnings about Far East sellers offering Ferrari 902's originally meant for the Japanese market. I don't know the relevance of these warnings, but cellphones, like jewelry and branded watches, are indeed just such prestige image items that malafide sellers can hit greedy ignorant buyers over the head with. I never heard such warnings about counterfeit Bosch circular saws or DeWalt drills. Because it wouldn't pay to fake those; plain and simple.
Phone deals via eBay therefore seem a little bit more risky to me, since this particular marketplace is already more tricky in itself.Vodafone wants no higher price for this limited red 902 than they want for their standard white one, which is more than decent (Ferrari items often cost lots extra!), but for that, as far as I know, all Vodafone 902's on offer have a simlock since they are to be had in Vodafone package deals only. On the other hand, rumour has it that part of the batch seems to have been drawn back from the shops by Vodafone head offices themselves, to offer them to some large business clients as deal bonuses (those particular phones may have had their simlocks removed). If these phones are unlocked in the proper way by Sharp itself or by means of its approved technology, it would be okay.
But if "enterpreneurs" did this on their own account after getting their hands on a batch of simlocked phones, an item of this batch would not be my first choice. Unlocking a phone can be achieved by either a special code input or by flashing certain chip memories. The code way leaves all other fuctions intact, but I've seen strange things happening to phones that were unlocked by flashing. Flashed Nokias for instance can be recognized by the start-up animation (the two grasping hands) that is no longer there. I've even seen IMEI-numbers change by flashing! This happened even to very simple phones like the Nokia 3410, which has otherwise very reliable and simple software. Remember also that the 902 was notorious for problems with its software (which is vastly more complex and intricate than that of non-3G phones) not so long ago, so flashing may also have adverse effects on software stability. Sellers may, on occasions like these auctions, even try to flog reject phones with dodgy software in the first place.
As you may well know, part of the attraction of these limited 902's is the Ferrari customized user interface, with special theme icons and theme layout throughout the phone menus. There is a chance that flashing may alter this appearance or corrupt the functionality in some way. 902's bought through channels like eBay, may not be approved by Sharp to receive full service of a grade that would be straightforward under Vodafone subscription circumstances, which includes certain guarantees.
Furthermore, the outward appearance of these phones is a mere red colour with some Ferrari branding (Scuderia badge and Ferrari typeface) on it; otherwise there is little difference.
Pricing of a regular white 902 in the Far East may be a fair bit smaller than on European or American markets, making it profitable to buy them over there in quantities, take them apart and spray their casing parts red. Chinese and Taiwanese industries are particularly apt in quickly making die tools for moulding copies from a design original in different plastic colours (the flourishing trade in phone casings and fascias are a living proof of that). The badge and lettering can be added fairly simple by having those made as decals by a specialist firm on stealthy order (brand merchandising infringements are by no means stamped out entirely yet). The phone software containing the custom Ferrari icons, can be copied into the phones readily as well. There is no way to tell if the decals are substandard and will rub of easily during use. All you have to go on in the eBay auktions is a tiny product picture (which may not necessarily represent the very item that you are going to buy) and the reputation of the seller, whom you do not know at all. I do not want to put you off from any deal in eBay, these people might as well be trusted, but I only want to relay to you the reservations I myself would have, prior to deciding to buy such an item on eBay or not.
As for eBay procedures: there are two ways of purchasing. When "buy at once" is offered and no-one has beaten you to it, the item can be yours for the stated price. The "buy at once"- option is gone when someone starts a bid at a lower price than the one that was asked (because e.g. the bidder found the asking price too high). Then the other purchasing way; the regular auction bidding procedure, has taken effect. You will have to go along with the procedure and see to it that you end up as the highest bidder. Bidding is best done seconds before the auction ends and contains certain risks, which you must be willing to take beforehand.
You must really want the article and have the discipline to set a maximum price for yourself. You can recognize the freshmen and the unexperienced, who have already started bidding several days prior to auction ending; cranking up each other's buying prices. In almost all auctions that I took part in, my member name doesn't appear in the bidder's list until seconds before closing time. I have a radio controlled ("atomic time") watch at the ready, since that time is also the official time with which the eBay servers work. I send my maximum bid seconds before ending, leaving others very little time to react on it. I often win objects that way, at prices that are reasonable or rather low. This method contains a risk, however. Someone very keen may have entered a figure of e.g. 1000 Dollars, but if the highest bidder after him has put a bid of 499 Dollar and the auction is of a type that raises the stake with 1 Dollar at each bid, than the current auction price will say "500 Dollars" and the 1000 Dollar maximum will stay hidden. When I send my maximum of 899 Dollars seconds before closing, the bidder with 1000 Dollars still has won the auction, since immediately after my 899-bid, his higher bid makes sure the current auction price is upgraded to 900 automatically by the eBay-server, where all the bidders' entries are stored. Would I have bid e.g. 1050 at the last moment, I would have won the auction with 1001. But is the item really worth that? That's what I mean; just must decide your maximum beforehand with a cool head and accept it when maybe someone else still has won. In that case: just relax, have a drink and let that fool have his overpriced joy. It's no matter of life and death, is it?
Another trick: I choose auctions that end at unfavourable times of day (e.g. at three in the morning in the part of the world where at that moment most of the interested competitors are). I set my alarmclock and are battleready while others are fast asleep and let the auction closing go by.
An eBay bid ties both parties to fixed obligations. The seller must part with the item, even if the closing price is disappointingly low. But the buyer must pay the item price set at closing time, however high it is and whatever the state of the item is really in, which may have been discovered too late (always ask relevant questions about the item on sale before you enter the bid). And remember: bidding prices may seem to be low and a bargain for a long time, but they always go up rapidly in the last minutes before closing (because I'm not the only one who knows this trick)! Also do take into account the additional cost for money transfering and shipping the item to you. It is a good thing to insure the item while traveling (which mainly covers loss), but parcel services seldomly restitute physical damage to an item. I've had some lovely tools wrecked during shipping (which makes you wonder with what force they throw things about to break off handles of professional grade 2300 Watt grinders or heavy drills!!) and have learned since that it is better to make good arrangements with the seller concerning sturdy packaging.
I've not yet seen the 902 which would supposedly be on sale for only 5 Dollars; this is probably a shop display dummy with no working electronics inside. Also a phone with a bidding price which is 230 Dollars at the moment, may fetch as much as 900 Dollars at closing time! There is never a way of telling for sure how auctions will end. Therefore you must calculate the risks all by yourself and must determine the utmost limit that you are willing to go financially. Meaning: how much is it really really really worth to you? The Vodafone 902 list price in Holland is 899 Euro (roughly equal to Dollars). So my maximum bid would probably be 900, from a seller with a minimum of 50 ratings which were all 100% positive and a seller's address that I could retrace by e.g. bank account identity or by eBay itself. I would ask his pants of his butt about how he got hold of this item (like wanting to know the IMEI beforehand to check its bonafide status on internet) and I would rather have it with its original Vodafone simlock. If the item is bonafide throughout, new and unused and purchased in legal ways, Vodafone will not object to their provision to you of the unlocking code after you have used this device on their network for a year (in Holland for instance, providers must render unlocking codes to their clients after a year). This way I may not have purchased this item the cheapest way possible, but I'm sure of having the one and only collectible original version of it in a state worth having it as a first using owner.
Success with bidding! I may meet you at eBay!
greetings to all
gerhard
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Posted: 2005-07-01 13:29:21
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